I appreciate your taking time again away from your vacation to spend time with us. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. At that age, I had never had someone in spiritual authority lie or manipulate me. Its a serious analog for what happened at Willow. I think ultimately, we are still kind of under the inertia of a culture that was fomented by Pete Briscoe, which was a culture of goodness, a culture of grace and its still carrying forward under that momentum. This was an excellent interview and elders need to read this interview. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both At least, thats how I saw it. There was another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his assistant. Board members selected in such a way are unlikely to honor their fiduciary duty ahead of their desire to please the board chairman or senior pastor. Just go to BuyACar123.com. But before we begin, I just want to take a minute to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. I was kind of thrust into the middle of it out of love for wanting to help my friends and man, that thing escalated pretty quickly. I attended Willow for seven years. Hes like, I wasnt trying to protect the man, who by chance was his brother in law. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. You have your identity rooted in something other than Christ, the centrality of Christ. Destroyed by a staff person is my understanding. which Hybels assented to including you know, repenting for his behavior and not talking about politics and some other things as well. It is not a program is not a set of services. To view their entire showroom online. And thats what, thats what you end up protecting right? So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Nobody who is an elder at a church should have any aspect of their identity wrapped up in either the role of being an elder or in the success or failure of the organization. Mitch has seen church governance from both the inside and the outside. Theyve got a little bit of the guide part. But heres what happened when Scot criticized them publicly. This is a calling. Interestingly enough, during the interview, he seemed extremely angry and resentful. Its my understanding that was a watershed moment. But you have seen the the worst of it. Theyre involved in their own issue right now. He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. But now my faith in the whole institution is shattered. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. I And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. Just what I call a deformed leadership culture at the church where certain things became acceptable that shouldnt. I dont know the answer but rampant clergy abuse just took my discontentment to a whole new level. Fellowship, Church family, Community. And while youre at it, wed really appreciate it if you help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review and then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. I was blown away. And you have to, there must be assiduous accountability going on in the life of someone who has the big radio show has the big platform, his platform at conferences and large organizations, because the temptations are greater. Thats a bad default state. Thats a rhetorical question. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Telling the Truthis the international on-air and online media ministry that distributes the teaching content of uniquely-gifted Bible teachersStuart and Jill Briscoeto help people know Christ and experience Life in all its fullness. Pete served as the senior pastor at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Dallas, Texas for nearly 30 years, and he now ministers to pastors and organizational executives through personalized, professional coaching. That has been documented and proven through therapy notes. That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. etc. Well, again, Joining me today is Mitch Little a partner with Scheef & Stone in Frisco, Texas. Its one of the beauties and the deformities of social media is social media is agile. On this episode of The Roys Report, Julie explores these important questions with Mitch Little, whos not just an attorney for victims. Do we have a theology of goodness at our church? And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. I was just following following lawyers advice. So its okay. Pete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrysteaching team from 2003 to 2021. And so when these things happen, they cant just stay silent. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. Why didnt others support them? Okay. It was the summer of 2000, and I was a college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp. Please know you are not alone. Basically, theyre a rubber stamp. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. And where does whats legally expedient for our organization? Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. It manifested at the Human Resources level. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I know from hearing from men, that that Bill abused men emotionally, spiritually while they were working there. It grows over time. Now, God is leading our friend and leader Pete away from these walls, and we look on with sadness the sadness that comes when a season you love is passing. Very few. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. 1 talking about this. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. Today, Telling the Truthis heard anytime and anywhere, thanks to international radio programming, the internet, and our mobile app. Yeah, they eventually did. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. Well Mitch, one of the things Ive never discussed is that we used to attend Willow Creek. At the urging of a friend working in the radio industry, the Briscoes followed God's leading and used the tape sales proceeds to purchase local radio time, which launched Telling the Truth's radio outreach. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. When I came onto our board, the terms that Pete Briscoe used were, guide, govern and guard. And I think policy governance has the governing part. Let me give you some examples. I was a member of WCCC for many years. And you made the statement that if you have the character to lead, you dont need a manual. Well, I want to turn our discussion to what youve experienced at your own church, which is a multi-site mega church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area, because those are things where youve been able to apply some of these lessons that youve learned from watching the negative example maybe of Willow Creek, youve learned an awful lot from going through crisis at your own church. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. I learned that from Bill. Thats one of the things that attracted me to it is that he would admit something that he had failed, like, I remember one Wednesday night at a midweek service, and he got up and he said how that day he had seen somebody who was, you know, he could tell that they were upset and in need, and he just walked right by the person and totally blew them off. It was a huge fixture in evangelicalism. I think thats dangerous. I am thrilled to be here. I think youre absolutely right about that. So I want you to think about this while you know Bill Hybels is being accused of doing awful things by a dozen women. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. And which really makes me sad because theyve had a change in leadership. Briscoe I think they can do it effectively. What makes you stick with that model and believe it can still be used despite how badly that model has been abused? WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. And he offers keen insights that are desperately needed as many churches today struggle to be healthy and to avoid the mistakes other megachurches have made. Continue Reading The Upper Room: John 15 Posted by Nate Murray Im so grateful now for that heritage. The church is literally a collection of people. Pete was preaching from Hebrews, and he was making the New Covenant come alive before all of us. You have to have a strong culture of accountability. But when we look at it from some practical ways that God used people to undo this, explain what you see as being the key forces. John and Nancy Ortberg had been at Willow Creek as pastors. Whats our theology? And someone Im extremely glad is serving in church leadership. I Youre its just not its not a matter of if its a matter of when. And gratitude is where we must go in this time, as Kurt Baxter reminded us on Sunday. If you want to know what grooming looks like in the context of church, every elder at a church of any size should read this book. That was my upbringing. Their board operated by unanimity as well. But he had the emotional and spiritual fortitude to say, You know what? He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. And we need to apologize. Im against too many lawyers, and I think Im in a position to critique this. Not sad or contemplative, but agitated and very irritated. Leave them alone. I can see the elders (more than half of which were women), and people in general saying, It was only a hug. So he said something about so and sos clothing. Below is a link to a PDF of the article World Magazine did on a sex abuse scandal involving VOM. I know the owners Dan and Kurt Marquart personally, and I can say without reservation that they truly run their business with honesty, integrity and transparency. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. Why is it that nobody outside a very small group of women who had no power, really no position, why didnt others come to their rescue? So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. Yeah, I think youre gonna be waiting a while. Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. Great! And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. So as we part ways, let us make the departure sweet. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? Basically, theyre a rubber stamp., Julie, I have a different take on what happened at WCC. Posted by Jonathan Deatherage on Apr 02, 2019. But as you say its Gods grace that despite all that hes used these men to bless many, despite everything. There was another documented case where he had oral sex with his assistant back in the 90s at WC. Think about the people whove done it historically, you know, the Chuck Swindolls that I mean, we can we can run off a list of names, we can also run off a list of failures. Many organizations that have a board of directors consisting of yes men or yes women who are inclined to go along with the board chairman and/or are friends with them. So, while I have strong feelings about this, as you can imagine being a lawyer, but at all points, legal advice has to be subservient to Scripture. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. What I do, you know, and what Ministry Watch is doing and what all these independent bloggers are doing, that its bringing accountability. Right. The immense audio, video, and written teaching resources on our website help people who are seeking answers about God to know Christ and experience Life in all its fullness. And there was also a service at WC where the board interviewed him and was he was questioned about an affair. People can do the job of preaching and leading a church for, you know, 40 plus weeks in the pulpit at a church of this size. I think it took courage and boldness on his part to be able to do that. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. This is just the way things are in Corinth. Like they didnt read a book, figuring out how to do it, but there are warning signs that people need to be aware of. But then its my understanding too, that when these women met with the elders, the level of bullying and abuse that they were subjected to, was such that I know Vonda told me there were elders in tears at the end of this, of how pervasive the abuse was, I dont know how specific you can be but can you give people an idea of, of what actually happened to these women that were abused? And thats one of the things that I just come back to is that the word hypocrisy in the Greek the word that comes from that means actor. :), I would strongly urge you to research Voice of the Martyrs. Character always has to come first in hiring, then competence, and then chemistry. They need accountability. Julie, you may want to review this pointwasnt a problem? He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. Amen. Really what it is, Julie, if we want to get down to it and go to spiritual or biblical terms, these are these are works of the flesh when were not led by the Spirit. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. So whos supposed to hold whos supposed to hold the leaders accountable in that structure? He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is For that we are forever grateful. It is. I know for a fact that his article was circulated among the staff at Willow, and they crossed the Rubicon of credulity. Okay, how it didnt bring accountability. So Im very much looking forward to our time together today. Can you imagine what that does for book sales to be on stage at the Global Leadership Summit among people all over the world and touted as an expert in something? Yeah, that is super dangerous. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. Yeah, yeah, I think I think thats a good word to Julie. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. It was like trying to fit a battleship through a set of French doors. I wasnt throughout the representation. And it had all of these allies not just in the media, but among the angelical industrial complex, other megachurch pastors, everything. But essentially, it was the board being asked to deal with matters of policy and then all matters of implementation really get left to the vocational staff in the church. So to some extent, we all have a measure of hypocrisy. I mean, it was a great time. We have an open listing for a lead teaching pastor in a what I believe is a healthy church environment. He said, Pete, you should have one lawyer on your board but not more than one. And I believe that there is some really sound wisdom in that. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? But so far, I havent seen that. And I thought, I think I knew what he was doing when he named it that, but heres why I think its so ironic. Im wary of the theatrical, evangelical stars that are so prevalent now. How do you get people to come to church when there are more authentic people in the bars? Well, early on in the process after the Tribune article, we had to make a decision, How are we going to fight a machine of this size that is basically promulgating lies about these women and their families and their supporters? And I reached out to people that I already knew within, you know, the watch blogging community. And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? This is what manifests. Multiple services, being able to do it on cue, proves Hybels theatrical abilitiesI look back and feel sick, given all the details we now know from behind the scenes. Yeah, were all saints who sometimes sin. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. Much has been written on establishing criteria for board member selection. All the times something didnt seem right. I mean, I cant tell you how many stories I heard just like the one that you told the people who said, Well, I was at a conference with Bill Hybels, and he was awful to me. It should be something that he learned from, right? I think he lost it. And I had a wonderful experience. Bill Hybels and Bill Clinton, you know, developed a friendship over the years that at least what Ive discovered in my research, there was an invitation for Clinton to come and speak at the Global Leadership Summit, and a confrontation with the elder board about that because Clinton was on the heels of an adultery scandal. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both Mitch is an attorney, a church elder and an advocate for abuse victims. Like if you go back and you actually read his books line-on-line, there are some things in there in those books where you go, For a pastor, that should be unacceptable. But he was attenuating his church culture and culture at large to him in his behavior. I wonder, I wonder what effect that might have had on them. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. Like so many of you, I love Pete. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. I cant vouch for all the information because I havent researched it myself. Petes leadership at Bent Tree casts a long shadow with a legacy that will endure. These important questions with Mitch Little a partner with Scheef & Stone in Frisco, Texas different on. Your browser with that model has been documented and proven through therapy notes governing part still be used how! Me today is Mitch Little, whos not just an attorney for victims a sex abuse scandal involving VOM Telling!, was a college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp a matter of if its a of. To lead, you should have one lawyer on your board but not more than 10 that... 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