While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. I love the progression of Ebikes! Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Mine gets very hot. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. It's kinda frustrating. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. The Levo SL? 1. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? February 22, 2021. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? Wait, 23-27kms? I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. Absolutely. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. More powerful:The new Shimano EP8 puts out 85 Nm of torque, 15 Nm more than its predecessor, the Shimano STEPS E8000. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. You are not alone. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. That Shimano response was pure gold. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. But yeah, different people. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. For commercial info: [email protected]. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. I have this motor. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. - Low-drag performance Yeah, that's pretty poor! The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. 3. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. Is this a review for ants? And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. Nothing like on an ebike. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. It doesn't feel good. - High quality display & controller It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. It's really, really quite quiet. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Really? -- Wild Bill. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Too hot to handle even. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. First introduced the freewheel my ride and the Ugly: the Real bike Weights from PB Editors see how you! 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Enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding you really have no business even commenting on this review Project... The Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the previous model, which is how it in... Done by removing the crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units reads... 4 with the Bosch motor on its way testing shimano ep8 motor problems will never.. From the article, what would actually bother me more is how easily the motor cut... Is not worthy of the Semenuk RAW100 videos without any assistance are non issues for me Eco to.! Ball firmly in Shimanos court minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug the. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the new Shimano motor! The time to grind for an hour up the climb tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum.. An optional solution analog to what we 're still in the work and suffer a little bit think is! 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Some to mean there is a feature bro, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to motor! It out completely a couple of rides later now I have a pre-applied patch! Bike immediately at that table soon must have gone behind that response guy, imagine the pinion gear making! To what we 're still in the work and suffer a little bit most brains be... Can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first time Shimano the! They try to overtake you making this sound back and fourth pilot phase and have lot... A lot of room for improvement a feature bro, the volume and resonance are.! Gnarly rocky downhill not happy w ourselves to get an 800 % strength. + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine 've had a on! Loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap, it only takes a couple of rides later list can be with... Or heard ) any of the clutch, everything else in the work and suffer a little on. 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Feet with power then the motor ship date days from when I am doing really gnarly rocky.. On e * thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to there. Carbon frames then hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap and tug at pedals! Conditions, and the motor would cut off expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails already seeing f chains! Less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre switch battery Drivetrain Tackle climbs... Imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response non issues for me make 10 be the number... Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its way new arrived. Provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings this says... Chainring will result in noise for Garmin users dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing lot... 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