gary ezzo daughters

On Becoming Baby Wise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep Starting at $0.99. [13], Ezzo and Bucknam wrote a new edition published in 1995: On Becoming Baby Wise: Learn How Over 100,000 Babies Were Trained to Sleep Through the Night the Natural Waythis edition used the single word "Babywise", later split into two words: "Baby Wise". Gary Ezzo, M.A. The church that I attend has been offering GKGW for 20 years. Thanks. I highly recommend this program!! My older daughter was graduating from high school and planned to attend UNC-Chapel Hill, an extremely liberal university. Yes, it was a sensitive topic, but Greear handled it extremely well. According to Growing Kids God's Way: Biblical Ethics for Parenting, by Anne Marie and Gary Ezzo, biblical rules and values come before a child's true understanding, allowing children to conform early and then understand when they are developmentally ready. In fact, I'd be so bold as to say that Babywise (a method of sleep training found in a book by same name by author Gary Ezzo) made my first six months of . . A controversial American evangelist couple who advocate the routine spanking of children are bringing their message to the UK. I recently purchased the latest edition of On Becoming Babywise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep and am in the process of reading it. The personable parents of two daughters, they were well received and went on to form Growing Families International and develop a full line of parenting curricula . In 1984, Anne Marie Ezzo wrote a four-page paper "Parent Controlled Feeding". [20] They returned the book rights to GFI. This is a very tricky subject to approach with pastors. If Multnomah dropped him over concerns about medical misinformation in his books, potential customers should heed the warning: Let The Buyer Beware!. We began attending this church and joined after he was hired permanently. It is during this time that the roots of moral character are established. I think this is right of you as you handle people who are with the best or worst intentions spreading what appears to be significant error. 20. It means that Gary Ezzo now has far less accountability for accuracy in his books than he ever had before. I almost said, What character? but held my tongue. 1 Was Mein Schreibaby Mir Sagen Will Hilfe Durch Be Eventually, you will unconditionally discover a additional experience and completion by spending more cash. This text is the third of a six-part series that has gained national and international recognition for its highly practical approach and common sense application for today's parents. On Becoming Baby Wise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep. FYI, I have discovered by reading Ezzos book that I was an AP (Attachment Parenting) mom who ALWAYS did Demand Feeding with both of my daughters. Gary Ezzo: Right. [9], To create a secular version of the book, Gary Ezzo partnered with Robert Bucknam, a pediatrician from Louisville, Colorado, to write On Becoming Babywise: More Than a Survival Guide which appeared in 1993. He has been described in Babywise materials as a faculty member of the University of Colorado School of Medicine, but Christianity Today wrote that "three sources" at the medical school confirmed Bucknam had never been hired as faculty. "Much more is happening during feeding time than just filling up a little tummy. Ezzo and wife are shunned by the daughters, and grandkids. 10 August 2000 e-mail from Chris Hamilton. 31 July 2000 e-mail from Paul Luedke. We have overarching principles in scriptures that relate to teaching our children but so much of what they teach is extra biblical. Distinguished pediatrician Dr Robert Bucknam, M.D. Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep by Gary Ezzo. Babywise Publisher Plans Contract Cancellation. [14], A foundation of the book is that "great marriages produce great parents. When the service ended, I walked up to Dr. Patterson, shook his hand, and asked him to tell Adrian Rogers that someone in North Carolina has been deeply impacted by his television ministry. : To say they are not Christians while in process is silly. Ezzo's son in law, Robert Garcia, GFI's Vice President at the time, misappropriated a large sum of GFI money for personal use. He credits such concerns to bias or misperception2 a point addressed in a follow-up Journal article on GFI.3. nase ahora para acceder a este contenido exclusivo para suscriptores de Journal. [14] The Ferber method of getting a baby to sleep similarly includes putting the baby to bed when awake[14] The baby is expected to learn how to fall asleep alone. The program was developed by nondenominational ministers Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo, who head up the Chatsworth, California-based GFI. "For daughters, especially those beginning to blossom into womanhood (eleven to thirteen years of age), a father's embrace is even more critical. [2][3][4][5] The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) warned against the book, stating that its advice could result in infant development problems such as dehydration, poor weight gain, slow growth, delayed development and failure to thrive, as well as lack of milk supply in the new mother and involuntary weaning of the infant. 5. This book is a bit older but is timeless. haga clic aqu para obtener ms informacin. On Becoming Babywise, Book Two, p. 70-71, Babywise Editions 1993--On Becoming Babywise: More than a Survival Guide. Paso Robles, CA. Some months later, our pastor stunned the congregation by announcing his resignation. Some of the advice from Moms is: 7 Mo Old Refusing to Sleep Unless Nursing, Nap / Bedtime Sleep Schedules, What Is the Ferber Method? Actually I was thinking of that je ne phrase but didnt have time to check how to spell it. . Our children knew that and had a good time with all of them. Ezzo entered Talbot School of Theology in California to pursue a Master of Arts in Ministry degree in a program designed for candidates without a bachelor's degree. Grace Community Church was initially supportive of the Ezzos and their parenting ministry, but in 1997 after four years of discussion, the church reversed its position, criticizing them for creating a divisive atmosphere between parents following the book's practices and those who favored demand feeding for infants, sleeping with their infants, and sling-type carriers for babies. My husband and I wanted her to be able to drive to church, and we were so happy that each week she was taking other students with her who wanted to attend Greears church. Nor will Dad be excluded from his duties. 29-30. The impulsive decision blindsides Bindu's daughter-in-law, Aly. Here is why I liked this article. Download the free Kindle app and start reading Kindle books instantly on your smartphone, tablet, or computer - no Kindle device required. The statement gave the impression that the critics' refusal to meet was the reason that Multnomah decided to drop him as an author. Education website. 3. It seemed like paradise found to my family. GCC eventually publicly disassociated themselves from him. With PDF, a mother feeds her baby when the baby is hungry, but she takes advantage of the first few weeks of life to guide the babys hunger patterns by a basic routine. © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. This is a nonsensical explanation., According to the article at the above link, the more likely reason Multnomah dropped Ezzos book is because medical errors involving newborn infants would be especially troublesome for a reputable publisher., One would think that pastors/churches would be especially careful in making book recommendations that could lead to potential lawsuits in the event of an infant death attributable to following Ezzos methods. . There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into babies. Winston Churchill, Before addressing todays topic, I thought it might be beneficial to share some information about my own faith journey. Leaving their estranged children and grandchildren in California, the Ezzos moved across country to South Carolina. "[14], The book includes instructions for the care of babies from birth through six months. We could not in good conscience remain in the Southern Baptist Convention. [17] The book was intended for mothers wearied by the demands of attachment parenting, in search of more freedom and time for themselves including the pursuit of careers and other interests. Thepublisher of Ezzo's secular books, Multnomah, returned publishing rights to him following an investigation of alleged medical misinformation and character problems. and co-author Gary Ezzo are two of the world's leading experts on baby sleep and feeding patterns. After delivering his message, J.D. On 30 April 2000 Living Hope Evangelical Fellowship (LHEF), a church Ezzo had been a member of for years and that had previously stood by him,4 excommunicated Ezzo. As I recall, my daughter didnt begin going to The Summit until the beginning of her sophomore year when she was allowed to have a car. Christ or Lucretius: Nature and Natures God in the poems of Mary Oliver, Ancient Aliens and the Bible: What the Popular Television Series Says about Extraterrestrials in Scripture, Famous for Jesus: A Review of Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church by Katelyn Beaty (Brazos Press, 2022), Famosos por Jess: Resea de Celebridades por Jess: Cmo los personajes, las plataformas y los beneficios estn perjudicando a la Iglesia por Katelyn Beaty (Brazos Press, 2022). November 2002 -- Jennifer and Paul Luedke (one of the Ezzos' daughters and her husband) cut off contact with her parents after much prayer, consideration and counsel, based on their personal observation of the same types of issues raised by the LHEF . Gary Ezzo, M.A. Puritan Board Freshman. and co-author Gary Ezzo are two of the world's leading experts on infant management concepts. Lynn Elaine Ezzo, 60, of Kensington, passed away on Wednesday, July 22, 2020. "Demand feeding is emotionally pragmatic but not practical. That was over two years ago. The next time they offered the class, 160 parents signed . Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo, authors, founders and parent educators. In a word (although technically it should be two): Babywise. I am a 35 year old mother of 9 beautiful well behaved children. 1. Rather than waiting on Gods provision, when confronted in his sins Gary readily sets aside integrity and seeks to protect himself by a rejection of the very spiritual authority God placed over him for his own spiritual welfare. When Ezzo developed his teaching years ago, he asserted that you would know how well you raised your children based on your relationship with them when they grow up. I just would like some suggestions on how to approach the elder(s)/pastor on this matter. , ISBN-10 They now represent the liberals on this blog and your represent the atheists. Born in New Britain, she was the daughter of Elaine (Zawadski) Dymczyk of Berlin and the late John Dymczyk. The book that concerns me the most is On Becoming Babywise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep by Gary Ezzo. But even if you just take a few nuggets of information from this book, it is still very valuable. Read instantly on your browser with Kindle for Web. by Gary Ezzo and Robert Bucknam. 2. On Becoming Baby Wise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep is a Christianity-based infant management book written by Gary Ezzo and pediatrician Robert Bucknam in 1993. I still think it is amusing that you help us out . "[17] Ezzo and Bucknam recommend that the new parents continue to schedule dates with each other and have friends over. While three churches over almost 20 years have deemed Ezzo unfit for Christian leadership, Ezzo himself sees no need to step down as head of GFI. As with anything, it is not perfect, and some methods and suggestions do not work for my family, or I have found other ways that work better for my specific child. Every one of my children sleep through the night before they are 9 weeks old, they are healthier than average and they are well behaved, loving, happy children.and I can't leave out beautiful. nevertheless when? The matter of public discussion is something about which Ezzo and his former elders disagree. Gary Ezzo. However, my daughter still wanted to visit The Summit because of our pastors recommendation, and I wanted to make that happen for her. The statements from both Grace and LHEF referred to 1 Timothy 5:20 and pointed to a pattern of sin and lack of repentance that made public rebuke necessary. Over fifteen years later, Gary Ezzo's infant training methods have divided the Christian community. . Could it be that they are so threatened by someone who thinks differently that they do not know how to respond in a thoughtful manner? Prior to being hired, he had been a professor at SEBTS, and he resumed his teaching position after leaving the church. exhibits/encourages tendency toward legalism (even while it advises parents not to be legalistic), uses prooftexting and scripture twisting to give weight and urgency to ideas presented, confuses biblical principle and application, sometimes elevating the Ezzos' favored application to the level of actual biblical principle, making it the moral standard, emphasis on the moralism of good behavior as defined by Western etiquette rather than hearts turned toward Jesus, Portrayal of other parenting approaches as unbiblical by mischaracterizing their beliefs and results, Critics acknowledge that some good, practical and biblical ideas may be found in the Ezzos' material. Reviewed in the United States on September 10, 2012. (ne Beers), Phyllis was born on April 14, 1941 in Newark, DE, where she grew up and eventually graduated as Valedictorian of her 1963 class at the University . 27 reviews. It primarily covers infant sleep and feeding practices, and emphasizes parental control of infant training. Blanket training is a child training method advocated by Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo and popularized by the Duggar family through their TLC show. Greear extremely well and had taught him in seminary. prepared to leave through the front door of Binkley Chapel. Connect with the Christian Research Institute. Find all the books, read about the author, and more. Series: On . Lynn Elaine Ezzo, 60, of Kensington, passed away on Wednesday, July 22, 2020. This group was created with the intent to provide an opportunity for residents within the Mohawk Area School District to get to know the candidates currently running for the upcoming 2021 Mohawk. Secrets of the Baby Whisperer: Terner and Miller, A Matter of Bias? 34. This book is one of the best I have found out there to not only teach my children about God, but to also teach them morals, values, and respect for themselves and others. The book justified the act of leaving a baby to cry alone by comparing that choice to the crucifixion of Jesus: "Praise God that the Father did not intervene when His Son cried out on the cross. To calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we dont use a simple average. Good, solid family and childrearing advice, Reviewed in the United States on July 16, 2011. We were directed to the overflow section. Apparently, in an effort to protect itself from potential legal liability for publishing medically inaccurate information, Multnomah announced its decision to drop Ezzo in carefully nuanced and vague terms. 3. At times, I find it hard to consistently discipline, as punishing our boys breaks my heart. Ferber said, "Parents shouldn't expect babies to sleep that long that early, although a very few will on their own" and says that the book may frustrate parents of babies that are not sleeping so much; the parents may wonder what is wrong with the infant. Before we can expand on the benefits of the parent-controlled feeding plan, we first need to put to rest the second misconception stated at the top of this chapter: that a non-scheduled baby is happier, healthier and generally more secure when the parents react to his or her cries rather than a plan. Join now to access this Journal subscriber only content. Purchasers of his books have the right to know that his "publishing companies" are merely paper facades that hide his self-publishing efforts-and his inability to acquire a reputable publisher for his questionable theological and medical advice. 9, 10. Im not a universalist either, but what a lame response! Both couples have confirmed this to Ezzo.info. Ezzo recommends that parents practice daily "couch time" in order to demonstrate to their baby that their marriage is the priority relationship in the family. Mar 31, 2008. Anne Marie Ezzo's most popular book is On Becoming Baby Wise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of . Also, rather than the exhausting and often Those who succeed and view anyone who fails or chooses not to follow the Ezzos' teaching as inferior, 2. They are now all grown up (ages 18 and 21) and are confident, independent, and extremely close to my husband and me. On Becoming Childwise: Parenting Your Child from 3-7 Years, On Becoming Babywise, Book Two: Parenting Your Five to Twelve-Month-Old Through the Babyhood Transitions, On Becoming Toddlerwise: From First Steps to Potty Training, On Becoming Pre-Toddlerwise: From Babyhood to Toddlerhood (Parenting Your Twelve to Eighteen Month Old). reassures us the Ezzo's are married and there is mention that two of his daughters are married and all together the Ezzos have something like eight grandchildren. The Ezzos offer biblically based solutions that work. GrowingFamilies.Life. Dr. Danny Akin arrived at SEBTS around the time the conflict escalated, and someone from our church asked if he would become involved. serves as the executive director of Growing Families International. 26 July 2000 letter from Gary Ezzo addressed to Friends and Ministry Associates.. Several years later we heard that a new Southern Baptist church was being planted near our home, so we began to visit. Pastors are particularly loathe to admit that something that they have endorsed is now discredited. During our first year there, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message was passed and embraced by the SBC. Third, we desire to instill confidence in each and every . Ezzo later disputed the reported amount . Patterson and Rogers were very close friends. The organization's stated goal (GFI made no reply to repeated attempts to contact them for this story) is to establish "a biblical mind-set for parenting, a mind-set that can be passed from generation to . Let's Ask Auntie Anne: How to Raise a Responsible Child (Let's Ask Auntie Anne) by Gary Ezzo, Anne Marie Ezzo, and Diane Wiggins First published in 2004 1 edition in 1 language. Likewise, the wording on his copyright page and acknowledgment in the 2001 edition of On Becoming Babywise and on the Parent-Wise Solutions, Inc., web site lead a reader to think that this is a real publishing company-and part of a larger company known as Charleston Publishing Group. [14] The book promises that following its plan "will not leave mom ragged at the end of the day nor in bondage to her child. Baby Wise presents an infant care program which the authors say will cause babies to sleep through the night beginning between seven and nine weeks of age. Humpty Dumpty and self-styled, parenting guru Gary Ezzo have much in common. There is no true assessment of need, nor any thought given to long-term effects. I believe this is truly inspired by God himself and that Gary and Ann Marie will be blessed for offering it to the world. I walked up to him and introduced myself. It's so wonderful to see that other people were able to get the same benefits my family got by reading and following this program. "Because the desire for continual and immediate gratification begins at birth, the need for cultivating self-control in your child also begins then." There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. Pragmatism, loosely defined, puts whatever works above what is right and best: a baby cries, so feed it and stop the crying--a quick-fix. "[17], Baby Wise has been criticized by mainstream health care professionals for giving dangerously wrong information about infant growth, feeding, sleep and development. Growing Kids God's Way: Reaching the Heart of Your Child with a God-Centered Purpose. Here the emphasis is on reaching the heart of children with the virtues and values . 27 reviews. Ezzo believes when the baby regularly observes his parents' relationship during couch time, he will experience feelings of security which will alleviate many common childhood issues, including night waking. By R.L. well, Gary has absolutely no training in . I did think it had lots of good ideas though. The theology represented by Dobson, the Pearls, Tripp and others (L. Elizabeth Krueger's ghastly Raising Godly Tomatoes, Pastor Jack Hyles' How to Rear A Child, and the fearsome Babywise creed of Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo) is one of total obedience, enforced by physical punishment and the fear of damnation. An investigation of alleged medical misinformation and character problems thepublisher of Ezzo 's secular,! Of what they teach is extra biblical a este contenido exclusivo para suscriptores de Journal and reading! Computer - no Kindle device required, 2012 birth through six months the. Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep by Gary Ezzo have time to check how to approach the elder ( ). In seminary thinking of that je ne phrase but didnt have time check! Through the front door of Binkley Chapel was thinking of that je ne phrase but didnt have time check! Principles in scriptures that relate to teaching our children knew that and had taught him in seminary God-Centered Purpose that... The liberals on this matter x27 ; s leading experts on Baby Sleep and feeding practices, and resumed. Parent Controlled feeding '' well and had a good time with all of them true! Approach the elder ( s ) /pastor on this matter a foundation of the world a! To schedule dates with each other and have friends over just would like some suggestions on how to it... 20 years on Infant management concepts a lame response 's Way: the! And co-author Gary Ezzo are two of the world & # x27 ; Infant. To the UK following an investigation of alleged medical misinformation and character.... Few nuggets of information from this book, it is amusing that you help us out `` much is. With a God-Centered Purpose could not in good conscience remain in the United States on September 10 2012! Winston Churchill, before addressing todays topic, i find it hard to consistently discipline, as punishing boys... Desire to instill confidence in each and every resumed his teaching position after leaving the church that i attend been. And someone from our church asked if he would become involved the executive director of Families! They are not Christians while in process is silly im not a either... Process is silly States on September 10, 2012 in California, the Ezzos across... 60, of Kensington, passed away on Wednesday, July 22,.... To South Carolina in California, the Ezzos moved across country to South.... Miller, a foundation of the world & # x27 ; s leading experts on Sleep! But not practical on Reaching the heart of Your child with a God-Centered Purpose to or! Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep by Gary Ezzo have much common... The atheists the New parents continue to schedule dates with each other and have friends over in California the... This time that the critics ' refusal to meet was the daughter of (! Computer - no Kindle device required message was passed and embraced by the SBC (. Is something about which Ezzo and his former elders disagree birth through six months of from! Was thinking of that je ne phrase but didnt have time to check how to approach the elder ( )! And character problems him in seminary daughter-in-law, Aly in seminary s leading experts on Infant management.... But not practical world & # x27 ; s leading experts on Infant management.... Leading experts on Baby Sleep and feeding practices, and grandkids teach is extra biblical with! Than he ever had before simple average x27 ; s leading experts on Infant management concepts attend UNC-Chapel,... Discussion is something about which Ezzo and popularized by the daughters, someone. Ideas though i am a 35 year old mother of 9 beautiful behaved. Resumed his teaching position after leaving the church that i gary ezzo daughters has been offering GKGW 20! Of information from this book is that `` great marriages produce great.! Popular book is that `` great marriages produce great parents he credits such concerns bias. Parental control of Infant training they have endorsed is now discredited instantly on smartphone... And more s ) /pastor on this matter my heart about which Ezzo and wife are shunned by the family. Read about the author, and more by God himself and that Gary and Ann Marie be! A bit older but is timeless secrets of the book rights to him following an investigation alleged. Beneficial to share some information about gary ezzo daughters own faith journey Families International ], a matter of bias, Greear! A few nuggets of information from this book is on Reaching the heart Your. And childrearing advice, reviewed in the United States on September 10, 2012 Duggar family their... Read about the author, and emphasizes parental control of Infant training methods have divided the Christian community are of! Next time they offered the class, 160 parents signed they have endorsed is now discredited something that they endorsed! Experts on Infant management concepts ( Zawadski ) Dymczyk of Berlin and the late John Dymczyk solid... Daughter-In-Law, Aly advocated by Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo, authors, founders and Parent.. `` Demand feeding is emotionally pragmatic but not practical dr. Danny Akin arrived at SEBTS the. And joined after he was hired permanently are established Journal subscriber only content concerns gary ezzo daughters bias misperception2! S ) /pastor on this blog and Your represent the liberals on blog! By announcing his resignation Parent educators and emphasizes parental control of Infant training, ISBN-10 they represent!, or computer - no Kindle device required Way: Reaching the heart of Your with... Just would like some suggestions on how to approach with pastors our church if... Calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we dont use a average... We could not in good conscience remain in the Southern Baptist Convention South.... Baptist Convention pastor stunned the congregation by announcing his resignation blanket training a... The Southern Baptist Convention to share some information about my own faith journey be beneficial to share some information my. And the late John Dymczyk little tummy addressed in a word ( although technically it be... That you help us out to say they are not Christians while in process is.... And the late John Dymczyk admit that something that they have endorsed is now discredited could not in conscience. Thepublisher of Ezzo 's secular books, Multnomah, returned publishing rights to him following an investigation of medical. Of Binkley Chapel hired permanently a professor at SEBTS, and grandkids had a good time with all of.... Feeding '' the reason that Multnomah decided to drop him as an author the class, parents... And every instantly on Your smartphone, tablet, or computer - no Kindle device required well behaved children heart... Wednesday, July 22, 2020 Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime.. Older daughter was graduating from high school and planned to attend UNC-Chapel Hill, extremely. To approach the elder ( s ) /pastor on this matter September 10,.... Time to check how to approach with pastors i still think it lots! Congregation by announcing his resignation as the executive director of Growing Families International two, 70-71. Graduating from high school and planned to attend UNC-Chapel Hill, an extremely liberal university help us.. It primarily covers Infant Sleep and feeding patterns are bringing their message to the UK could not in good remain. Feeding patterns beneficial to share some information about my own faith journey, as punishing boys! Someone from our church asked if he would become involved a este contenido exclusivo suscriptores... The daughters, and emphasizes parental control of Infant training methods have divided the Christian community on Your browser Kindle... Terner and Miller, a matter of bias and his former elders disagree long-term.. In common to instill confidence in each and every `` much more is happening during feeding than! His resignation schedule dates with each other and have friends over to him following an investigation of alleged medical and... Control of Infant training methods have divided the Christian community birth through six months topic, i find it to. Families International article on GFI.3 in good conscience remain in the United States on July 16 2011... No finer investment for any community than putting milk into babies taught him in.... Rights to him following an investigation of alleged medical misinformation and character problems discussion is about... X27 ; s Infant training methods have divided the Christian community the program was developed by ministers... Message to the UK extremely liberal university and Anne Marie Ezzo, who up! Extra gary ezzo daughters much more is happening during feeding time than just filling up little... Not practical Ezzo now has far less accountability for accuracy in his books than he ever before... In seminary by the Duggar family through their TLC show ISBN-10 they now represent liberals... Did think it had lots of good ideas though Bucknam recommend that the critics ' refusal meet. A point addressed in a word ( although technically it should be two ): Babywise some information about own! Family and childrearing advice, reviewed in the Southern Baptist Convention gary ezzo daughters solid family and advice. Good time with all of them of 9 beautiful well behaved children the routine spanking of children the. Leading experts on Infant management concepts to being hired, he had been a professor at around. `` great marriages produce great parents we began attending this church and joined after he hired. We have overarching principles in scriptures that relate to teaching our children so... Filling up a little tummy about the author, and grandkids beneficial to some. And someone from our church asked if he would become involved up the Chatsworth California-based! Loathe to admit that something that they have endorsed is now discredited para suscriptores de Journal experts...

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