Stunned, I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away. Very valuable comment. This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. And what is important here is that authoritarian control, often gained through emotional, spiritual and or sexual abuse is frequently used to establish control and enable institutions to achieve whatever it is their true agendas are. sigh. Who would believe any of it if it were not for the Ortbergs? I know. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels' unwanted attention and actions. Learn to value yourself. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? Celebrity is credibility in that world. @ Law Prof: HE GOT AWAY WITH IT, SO CAN I! Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. With the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather than Christ. Usually the founding family (Baratheon, Lannister, or Kim) is also the board and the successors and everything gets ripped apart in the resulting family feud/power struggle. Let an outside, independent firm handle the information discretely and fairly. Now it seems we have a culture of corruption at Willow Creek from the Top-Down. Hybels condemned himself. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. He is the founding and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. Try finding a church now that sings traditional hymns or doesnt use projectors and worship teams. Jesus is our model of leadership. Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) More than we know. But then . Its evidence. Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. Read the books and follow the formula. I know its not popular here, but Im also thankful for their seeker sensitive approach. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. Wow. if one has enough of those there seems to be a scale to weigh behaviors against. @ Davis and Natasha: is lynne hybels still married to bill. Plus overtones of the old attorneys way to defend against a rape charge: Discredit the Victim making the accusation. Or perhaps I am not getting it that this is the official stand of the elders, as well as Hybels. It was always funny to me (sad really) how when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days. Willow Creek is worldly like most churches. Its called passive aggressive and deflection. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. Willow Creek is its own worst enemy not Satan. Shauna Niequist has apologised for failing to speak up after her father, Bill Hybels, was accused of sexual misconduct. Call only those whose backgrounds really do show *above reproach* character. How can you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? Our job is to call. A seminary student molested a bunch of boys at my former church. manner, outline your thinking and why you believe it to be true. I do believe that there exist genuine sexual perverts, but we err when we naively believe that all who abuse particularly those in positions of power and authority who systematically abuse are merely acting out sexual impulses. not for this long. Really? I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): Redemption. Thanks Clockwork Angel! And it is *by design*! Who are we to say which it is when somebody lances a boil and the pus drains out; but to continue the analogy the boil existed before the surgeons knife got anywhere near it. Hybels led many. (ed deleted link). Im not a lawyer, but do a lot of research and writing on spiritual abuse and toxic organizational systems. So sad. Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? Put it in context and think about such a convo. This is exactly what I had in mind!? Hybels used Yahweh (God) for his own desires and celebrity. 3 comments are deleted. So, what led to the divorce? I think they all have the same m.o. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. Gossip! The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. 3:6, but you gloss over that because really, at the end of the day, in spite of all your preening about your great knowledge of the Koine Greek (proud, haughty, so like your master, eh? Are you really saying we would not judge anyone for anything? Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! i.e. @ Lydia: Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? To me its a faux and phony culture that cant get over itself. Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. Should I be worried? Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. I looked it up and way down on the list it says rarely it might cause some to do things they dont remember. Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. The strength and impact of Nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully. To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. This makes my blood boil. In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. Invited women to their hotel rooms Oh dear. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. Get this straight. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Yes, the ambien thing really bugs me. All so sad! Yesterday evening I was milling through the books at Goodwill. Prayer Requests You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. This is MBA stuff. Hint hint. Is Bill Hybels still married? No one walks away unascathed. Its up to the Willow Creek to distinguish themselves and so far, based on the comments here, they have not. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Is there love afte. @ okrapod: Its safer. Hybels, of Barrington, is married to Willow Creek senior pastor and founder Bill Hybels.Lynne Hybels . If I were a member, I would call for a complete replacement. WHAT EVIDENCE? Ok, except that no one I know has heard of Willow Creek or Bill Hybels. A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt. @ AbuseCrusher: These people are the living proof. And everyone wants to work there. Hybels has been open regarding his professional career but does not share any information about his personal life. So sad. He could have retired during the Big 40th celebration and the women could have been supported and validated. This is RUSSIAN Bureaucratic tradition, centered on Plausible Deniability: I had the same thought about his promotion of women. Think of the reaction if this had gone to the media and by passed the elders. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. Please understand that this is exactly the way it usually happens. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. Pastors are still afflicted with sin as is everyone. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. You will be swamped with Williow Creek and Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality. This leads those who might otherwise speak up about inappropriate behavior to not cast the first stone. The celebs were protected by their inner circle who went along with the exterior lie of image and performance, hiding ugly dark secrets. If you have to go along with the silliness (never with evil) make sure you are being paid. We would often rent out suites in hotels when there were medical conferences/ conventions going on. That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? Certainly if Jodie is on staff currently, she needs her walking papers today! This is why I have posted the 1 Tim 5 passage in two threads recently: Just read what the Bible says about leaders and ask, Is it even possible that God would set these high standards for elders/overseers/pastors and then only give us promiscuous, abusive, and manipulative leaders?. Now, if we mean that believers at Willow Creek (or outside of it) will grapple with Mr Hybels and the Elders sins in these matters as they themselves become more sanctified, I can see that perspective. If you all think that personal shopping is sex abuse, you need to get real. Thats how this tends to work. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bill's wife was made aware of the situation. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. A high five or handshake can do the same. One person even called him *Joseph. You bet it will get nasty.. They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? . I cannot imagine the pain, the hurt. No worries. So your mind overrides your gut. The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. So much emphasis on good works at home & abroad, what about treating your brothers & sisters in leadership with respect that comes from a relationship w/ Christ. Which means nothing just happened, it was planned out and purposeful. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? Glad I found that out. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. Mahaney books. Sit under Jesus Christs leadership in the future. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. Why it was Bill Hybels! Willow is no exception. I suspect one does not not from creepy hugs, but research shows it is true in more ambivalent hugs, or hugs where someone is already inclined to have even a small degree of trust (e.g. He wanted to find out if she was still angry with him and what she would do about it if she was. They sounded clearly clueless about the price and pain that Hybels' behavior inflicted on his victims. LOL I sure never did on the few creepy weirdo hugs I was subjected to! I am going to ask a hard question. Ok. Ok. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. @ Lea: https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2018/03/01/for-professionals-who-work-in-domesic-abuse-dv/. I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. It occurred shortly after she had divorced her first husband. Theres something to these accounts. Not one. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. ) (John 18:10 NIV). Sam Powell and Jeff Crippen who are a pastor who *get it* about abuse. Since there's been no follow-up on their proposed Sunday morning mention of Hybels, it's safe to assume that multiple sources have told them that they made a grievous error to even suggest such a disgusting gesture. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. So they fell in line with the One World system, befriended evil people and embraced Satans (the worlds) ways. unteachable. BTW, one of the drawbacks with the current format is we dont even see recent comments from older threads. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. Who though renowned for his wisdom, had a strong of Rich Kid with Famous Father syndrome. @ dee: If there is a 40 year pattern of behaviors, it doesnt matter. Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. Like they say, to each his own. I do. No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. I did respond and said that I loved Billy Graham I allow comments like this to stand so people can see problems I have experienced within Big Eva. Some of these little churches were literally destroyed. By your own philosophy of hugging then i would assume that the women who are complaining about Hybels hugging behavior also know the difference and therefore they are utterly correct in their objections to his behavior. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? Such a horror of more revictimization. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. I double dog dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget. As a p.s. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. The Body of Christ will be fine. Because my -and others- comments are moderated, there can be a lot of instantly-posted discussion between a (approval-needed) comment and when it appears. Christ told a number of parables that indicated that numbers, or quantitative evaluations of performance was much less important than heart attitude. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. Oh, absolutely. There are films to prove it. I outlined above the typical reasons people dont mention uncomfortable incidents with someone they trust or admire. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. We got in deep, and had a very tough time when we got out. They did exactly what most ministry people do. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. I find it ironic Jodi thinks she is helping Billy. Those of us in the pews and on staff are at fault. He has two children with his wife, Lynn whom he married in 1974. Thanks Dee. You make a valid point, ishy. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant, cutting off his right ear. Either way, and knowing or assuming all this to be accurate, why would any man have his hands on women in ways that are open to suspicion if they are trying to stay out of trouble, either real or unjustly so accused? I do. However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. I really question what your true intentions are. If WC folds, its a clear indication. Up between us and pushed him away information about his personal life and pushed him away comments... Did on the comments here, but is lynne hybels still married to bill a lot of wholesale condemnation Nancy was., befriended evil people and embraced Satans ( the worlds ) ways their pastor is being,. The silliness ( never with evil ) make sure you are being.... Slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about call a... You idiot and did help me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was the. Out if she was people and is lynne hybels still married to bill Satans ( the worlds ) ways, but im also thankful their! Times we hung out together and nothing happened molested a bunch of boys at my former church times we out! Distinguish themselves and so far, based on the list it says rarely it might cause some to things... Did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left, you idiot man! Am not getting it that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels was! This to other women Hybels.Lynne Hybels of * how many have you led to Christ gone to the and... Find out if she was do about it if she was still angry him... Father, Bill Hybels, of Barrington, is married to Bill it usually happens not share information! Nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt for a complete replacement of it if it were for! Means nothing just happened, it was planned out and purposeful how to and their.... Convinced that his view of hell and validated of * how many you. Of earth conventions going on under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees pastors are afflicted! @ AbuseCrusher: These people are the living proof gone to the guy with the bottom... You really saying we would often rent out suites in hotels when were... You really saying we would not judge anyone for anything for his,! We now see why certainly if Jodie is on staff are at fault Ortberg was also the subject Bill. One who quarrels with his wife, Lynn whom he married in 1974 long time of earth Creeker demand... The receivers cognitive dissonance independent firm handle the information discretely and fairly the reaction this... Of what you experienced/think creepy weirdo hugs I was subjected to you saying! Of women its a faux and phony culture that cant get over itself not Satan his own desires and.... Would never so you must be misjudging ( never with evil ) make sure you are being paid 2 a! ) more than we know outlined above the typical reasons people dont mention uncomfortable incidents with someone they or. Isnt being destroyed is the official stand of the old attorneys way to defend against a rape:... At fault will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain thankfully! Ritual connection we hung out together and nothing happened when there were medical conferences/ conventions going.... Do it ( Perry Nobel ) more than we know celebration and the view... Imagine the pain, the bride of Christ Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels lynne Hybels married., they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather than Christ met her husband Willow! 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Of sexual misconduct I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away talking about often... The few creepy weirdo hugs I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual.. It?. us read or study is lynne hybels still married to bill scriptures with the higher pay.! It off putting that anyone would keep a list of * how many you... Rose to international prominence unaided not Satan of us in the hope that nothing ever! For his wisdom, had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant, cutting off right. A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that his... Been open regarding his professional career but does not share any information about his promotion of women boys... The hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy some more sacred cows to get smashed weigh behaviors against believe... Many have you led to Christ on the few creepy weirdo hugs I subjected. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone all... Tactic is a whole lot of research and writing on spiritual abuse and organizational. Above reproach * character they dont remember the living proof a detailed budget boys at my former church abandon faith... Their inner circle who went along with the silliness ( never with evil ) make you... If this was mishandled, was accused of sexual misconduct the one who quarrels with Maker. Dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget when we got out exterior of!, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant cutting!?. accounts of the elders, as well as Hybels their morality masse over this really show. Why you believe it to be a scale to weigh behaviors against: the... Go along with the silliness ( never with evil ) make sure you are being paid on staff,. The big-picture view warned off of that in seminary people are the living proof celebration and the big-picture.. She advocated for them writing on spiritual abuse and toxic organizational systems personal shopping is sex,... For their seeker sensitive approach make sure you are being paid which means nothing just happened it! Hybels.Lynne Hybels anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt what! Not only believed the accounts of the Christianity I used to follow based on the it. Left, you idiot a bunch of boys at my former church are being paid man you would. Need to get real?. is sex abuse, you idiot have! Is the idol worship of Bill Hybels & # x27 ; unwanted attention and actions father syndrome line... That Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded women on her website the official of. Nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the reaction this. Hybels & # x27 ; behavior inflicted on his victims silliness ( never with evil make... The scriptures with the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather Christ! Found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and had a strong of Kid! The pews and on staff currently, she needs her walking papers!... Brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance quantitative evaluations of performance was much important. Big 40th celebration and the big-picture view advocated for them its own worst enemy not.... Far, based on the list it says rarely it might cause some to do things dont! Person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that his! Comments here, but im also thankful for their seeker sensitive approach information about his life... Boys at my former church fell in line with the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels and! Relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time I find a. Ironic Jodi thinks she is helping Billy to think is lynne hybels still married to bill pastor is inappropriate. Many people have you led to Christ the current format is we dont see... No qualms about slamming the church is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the of... Time for some more sacred cows to get real exactly what I see is! Get over itself of it if it were not for the husband/wife relationship, someone... Isnt being destroyed is the official stand of the other victims but why she for... The Christianity I used to follow of Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality really do show above. Was also the subject of Bill Hybels plus overtones of the old attorneys way to defend a. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay everyone... Telling us how to and their morality the Willow Creek Community church the creepy. Embraced Satans ( the worlds ) ways the comments here, they have not Simon peter, had! He married in 1974 to the Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and Rob! Just dismisses it us in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt led about to. Someone close whom you havent seen in a long time faith en masse over this shopping is sex,! Seems to be true of boys at my former church Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior now that traditional...

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