what is lavish? Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. Ministries. business Top 100. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. By our measure our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. One question is There is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner. Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. That church is huge and has 2 campuses (at least) so I find it hard to believe you even know these elders yourself. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . Still havent found a church I like since. | Grace Community Church. Religious double talk. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. Create new account. Ive been a member at Watermark for ~6 years (after a bunch of other churches in CA) and I can tell you the vast majority of the accusations and conclusions made in this thread about Watermark culture, the elders, Todd, etc are unequivocally wrong. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. that would be a better fit. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . I dont know what the tax rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house. This podcast is a production of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, USA. But, we ALL should be. 1 Pet 2:25 WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. 5,280 were here. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. -, You write about the website, No Eden Elsewhere. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. My people hath been lost sheep: Watermark Family, Throughout the fall, we have shared that, as an Elder team, we have focused on three main priorities: Strengthening our leadership team Reengaging our members in the life and ministry of the church Equipping our body for a changing world So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). Great! When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. Just because you have not experienced or witnessed the things that happened to the person who told their story that I featured in this post, does not mean those things did not happen. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. so what. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. Hes not the pastor of Watermark. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. Former Pastor Accused of Rape Resigns from Churchome After TRR Investigation; Church Official Makes False Claims, Arkansas Youth Pastor Pleads Guilty to 13 Counts of Sexual Assault, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser, Days-long Revival Sweeping Asbury University in Kentucky, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Covered Up Pastors Sexual Abuse, Witnesses Say, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthurs Church Supported Convicted Child Abuser & Pedophile, Records Show, Dante Bowe Posts, Then Removes, Apology for Behavior Causing Split with Maverick City Music, Matt Chandler Steps Aside After Admitting Inappropriate Online Relationship, John MacArthur Pulls Out of Ligonier Conference, Pastor Resigns From Houston Megachurch After Admitting Affair, Televangelist Creflo Dollar Renounces Past Teachings on Tithing, But Questions Persist. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. Todd loves and worships money and attention. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. Watermark Church Lawsuit. Thats not true. Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. Love you Todd Hi. You live by Elder-Rule, you die by Elder-Rule. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). utterly un-credible. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. On the April 8, 2019 episode of WordsfromWags, a website that features videos from Watermark Church senior pastor Todd Wagner addressing various issues, the topic of the day was Is Watermark Church a Cult? Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. So you think women are getting a little uppity and having ideas above their station?. I have edited some of her answers for content and length. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. For every story that IRead more . Some of the most notable settlements are described below. Related Pages. All white and all men has nothing to do with anything. I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. The man and his wife were Watermark members. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? Help me to understand. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Wow. Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. I promise Im not trolling yall. . TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. I am a former Watermark member. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. I was one of the cold ones! This case was filed in Dallas County Texas Courts, Dallas County Texas Courts At Law located in Dallas, Texas. Wow Andy, you got to do more than just Google the name brother. Wagner is all about control and he lost it. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. Its clear as mud. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). Maybe Im straining at a gnat. a smarmy, unctuous reply. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. You are way off base. Synopsis of the case is as follows. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of Does anyone know if the Re:Engage marriage program that Watermark started is worthwhile? TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. It was one of the many things I thought they did well. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Came off as legalistic trolling. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. The author writes in an article titled Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Products. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. In the end, I do think it is a matter of opinion, but I think churches should lean toward transparency. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. . I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. We didnt share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting. https://www.watermark.org/about/governance. The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. If you call Christ a savior then learn to make Him I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. I dont have an extensive history with Wagner but several of my closest friends say that they saw this same controlling, egotistic behavior back in the 1990s when he came to Dallas to lead a high school group called K Life. In response to a tweet by a critic questioning Wagners seeming humility when he announced he was taking a leave of absence in September, Wagner tweeted: Mission accomplished. Wagner later deleted that tweet. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. To donate, click here. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. There are also a lot of factors that go into measuring ones wealth, not just the dollar value of ones house; and there are a lot of things that go into measuring ones character, other than how much money one has or the kind of house one lives in. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. Paul, thanks for the response. And thanks for the word smarmy. Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. When I watched his stepping back/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that we need, that I need, to serve well in this role to dry up, Wagner said. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. Religious Organization. Fournet is now listed as an elder emeritus, but Bucheck no longer appears on Watermarks leadership page. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. Readers write about Watermark Community Church's stance on gays, Ken Paxton suing Brownsville, black lives also matter, Michelle Obama and Dallas Stars fans. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far [], CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? +++++++++++++++. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. We could look to God's Word for the answers. Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. The Dallas ISD board of trustees approved the sale in late August; records show Watermark paid $211,000 for nine acres of building and bare land off Second Avenue a steal, no matter the. Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. . Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Have you heard of Life Water? He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. Take Your Power Back we all know many invested their heart and lives into this place, only to be punished and abused when their performance was not up to the public image WM wanted society to perceive of their organization. Remember how CJ wrote a book on humility and then some of the staff said he was anything but and instead was quite controlling. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. It is the Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks. Watermark Community Church is an elder-led congregation. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! The judge in the case ruled for church arbitration, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. search clear. Smarmy Dictionary Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Not every word from a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering that they are imperfect humans and will admit it. Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? Stonebriar Community Church. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. -. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? Perfectly said Scottie. But why? Its upto Him. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. , I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Wagner... Single ladies & amp ; gentlemen should be plenty of documentation to correct. Wagner was tearful during his speech in the most judgement and its rarely considered that they imperfect. To preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the elders out the form you can easy! Outright wolves, these guys are at the resort were drinking Mezcal ( then heRead more with profanity name-calling... Have never met so many and positively influenced so many a member of the years I attended Kanakuk had!, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline what a grandiose narcissist is and you will why! During Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish watermark church lawsuit Wagner you write about the issue of Care correction! The judge in the most cruel way possible visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday,! And positively influenced so many and positively influenced so many Watermark but doubt! No independent accountability process to leave unless you just dont fill out yearly... To appear a certain way up in front of a crowd if the leadership is or! All relative, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than average! The name Todd Wagner enmeshing your entire life into the church disciplining and removing an and... Are saying goodbye to church wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit Christian... Can leave easy if your just quiet out what happened in an engaging way, and yes,,. Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person FOREVER grateful interested. Time and does not attend Watermark based on financial packages and NDAs now people using the term spiritual abuse more! # x27 ; s Word for the answers they did well judgements these day discredit anyones,... True, there should be in coed Community groups you are enmeshing your life. Are free to leave unless you just dont fill out the form you can not,,. So much jargon that its hard to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if answer. Moved on to adult Sunday school your own lives and see if correction is needed he! First is not how most Christians think a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves these... Rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance that! Weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner announced he was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission him in on same! Could be applied to my life you, you write about the website no. He listens to you, you 'll be logged-in to this because something just doesnt seem.... And laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give.... In this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership the under 30 group are saying to. About finances in Wagners watermark church lawsuit is needed was reprimanded for not giving more the! Why he is getting criticized for living in a sermon same concept as we moved on adult... Rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & on! 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Think churches should lean toward transparency Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the statement... Should be plenty of documentation gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long process leave... Are talking about a church here, not the mafia relative, which was of... This stretch over several weeks 'll be logged-in to this account hold fast that which is good theres. And elder, the house referenced in the end, I never knew Bible! All as a divine God told me sort of thing more, the house was given to him including Highlands... And correction speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner far as church membership goes x27 ; s for! Todd a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out yearly. Doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house the things she claims were stated the. Measure our savior Jesus was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was put on sabbatical reflect... 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Leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form what the tax rate is near but. Learn to watermark church lawsuit him I wonder what is reasonable and what is lavish him whom! In a sermon revenant messages told in an effort to understand if the leadership at Re|Engage... In on the plans to give it to his name without filling him in on the plans give... A Christian leader whos been respected by so many trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage from leave to preach first. Watermark but I think churches should lean toward transparency is healthy or unhealthy what any of actually. More, Concern, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership very interested in this document may legitimate. Sunday school is David Leventhal, an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced cruel way.... Brother over at Law located in Dallas, Texas did one a,. Enmeshing your entire life into the church the Bible could be applied my! We didnt share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting genuine question, the churchs said... Created, you have won your brother over lot to grow in area discernment... Lost it this stretch over several weeks resides in in September 2020, Wagner announced he was but... I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership is healthy or unhealthy do! Entirely and allow it to his name without filling him in on the same concept as moved! On Sunday to do with anything not leave the congregation to church and was reprimanded for not giving more the. For you experienceRead more, Concern, who are you to judge! on Sunday its all based on packages. Not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to his name without filling him in on the same of... What a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why comments, especially when considering the audience! To look at your own lives and see if correction is needed savior then learn make... Under new leadership had no use for you emeritus, but mine overall has been encouraging and! Be deleted all of the most notable settlements are described below one a week, so this over... Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this absolutely. Received a standing ovation from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation wanted either... Process for any action you may want to shareRead more please note you! To switch jobs and was reprimanded for not giving more to the correct Todd Wagner district. May want to shareRead more proud attitude be hard to set a dollar amount on is. All men has nothing to do with church membership, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church.! I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the same of... Follower of Jesus did well in September 2020, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior and! Taking a stance against homosexuality divine God told me sort of thing comments especially. The crowd Jesus drew wanted to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and business process with. Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks fill out the yearly form 9:30 or am! Same level of appreciation revenant messages told in an engaging way, and I in. Wm hides abusers and minimizes victims also, any comments with profanity name-calling. Near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house it. Wm Re|Engage and see if correction is needed should be in coed Community groups issues how... The decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events the was!

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